#i can't get over his death bro it's a whole tragedy there

[crystallakec]

HI CRIS....cried a little while drawing this and cried a little more while reading your tags. thank you for leaving these it means so so much to me and I wanted to talk about him a little more😭

even if I want to believe, it's already too late.

[rynnthefangirl]

Thoughts on the first episode of HOTD Season 2:

-As expected, my hatred for Aegon has grown substantially since the previous season. I just find absolutely nothing redeemable about him. He treats war like it is a game, even though it will kill his people. A horrible king. I do enjoy his little brainstorming sesh with his frat bros about epithets-- a perfect example of his ego, and very satisfying knowing that he is in fact remembered as "Aegon the Usurper" and is considered one of the absolute worst kings who ever lived. Wish I could jump through the screen and tell him that.

-Also reminded of my hatred for Crispy Cole, which had cooled in the intervening time as I don't see many people stanning him or justifying him. But he really is just the biggest hypocrite. His reason for hating Rhaenrya is the exact thing that Alicent is currently doing. Another character with zero redeemable qualities.

-I liked Alicent lighting a candle for Luke. Alicent knows that she is in the wrong, that they all are, and a part of her does bitterly regret what happened and empathizes with Rhaenrya. But the tragedy of Show!Alicent is that she was ruled by her spite and jealousy for so long that by the time the consequences of the animosity she brewed start to come, it is too late to go back.

-Blood and Cheese was a disappointment. I don't care about the change to have Daemon send them after Aemond and not specifically Jaehaerys (as far as I'm concerned, if they are going to whitewash the Greens choices, they may as well do it for TB too). But the Sophie's Choice element was the most compelling part of the whole thing, and they just completely erased it. It was RIPE for adaptation too, what a wasted opportunity.

-So sad we didn't see more of Jace and Cregan. I get it, for pacing purposes we can't spend too long in Winterfell, but I feel like they could have had ONE deep and personal conversation between the two of them. Maybe Cregan could have told Jace about his little brother's death, and THAT is the convo that is interrupted with news of Luke's death. Would establish a bond between the two characters with minimal screen time AND plays well into Cregan's eventual role of helping Jace's own little brother ascend the throne. Alas... *sigh*. Though he and Cregan did have good chemistry, maybe they'll deviate from the books and revisit that later in the season/show since they had to cut the Winterfell visit short (I'm delulu).

-But on the other hand, the bits that we did get of Jace were so good! He looks amazing, him crying while delivering his report to Rhaenyra was just heartbreaking. I am so excited to see more of him, he is rapidly becoming one of my favorites.

-Rhaenyra crying over Luke's clothes broke me. I am so so sorry my love, my sweet Queen, I am so sorry that those nasty ass rats did this to you.

-Where are Aegon III and Viserys II :( I'm so desperate for content for them that I interpreted the exchange "Aegon the Strong" "that would be a better fit for my nephew" as a reference to Aegon III even though that doesn't even make sense.

-Overall I feel like it was a lot of setup, which makes sense. Besides B&C missing the mark, I enjoyed it okay, but there wasn't too much substance. Definitely more compelled by the TB side right now than TG, because there just much more emotional weight there.

[my-beloved-ghosts-and-me]

yeah, Jujutsu Kaisen it's a tragedy, and i LIVE LAUGH LOVE tragedies and, yes gege intentions are clear: he wants us to feel sad, repulsed, angry, mad, etc., but to me that doesn't excuse a few poor decisions he made when telling us, the audience, his history thus making it a bad writing

of course i'm not happy seeing gojo's body being used as a weapon even in his death, but that's clearly part of the tragedy, it's sad, it's heartbreaking and that's what tragedies are

but that doesn't excuse his death being offscreen

i get it, he doesn't like gojo, but to the point of not showing us his death, when nanami, nobara, yuki, choso and everybody else got their moments? nah, that's not right bro especially because in the chapter prior to his death everything is "okay" making it SO sudden for us, almost making no sense at all because wtf? how did this happen?, and that's why we kept theorizing he was coming back (since he did it once, with toji and the whole "you should have gone for the head" thing)

i get it, flashbacks are necessary sometimes, but if you have to explain such a big plot twist solely through flashback and no foreshadowing at all, you're weak

i'm sorry to say this but this is such a weak-ass resource when used poorly and it was used very poorly

this conversation was supposed to be shown to us BEFORE anything ever happened because that's how you hint to the audience that hey, this may not be going where you think it's going, that's how you set the tone for the history

you can't have an abrupt death and this plot twist explained through flashback because it looks like you didn't think your history through and you're just having to make up some explanations now to justify your past decisions

i personally believe he let his deep dislike for gojo affect his capacity to make plot decisions regarding him but guess what? gojo satoru is a very important part of the plot and you can't just pretend sloppy choices about how you portray his character and his fate are not going to have a deep impact on how the audience is going to react because he's not some secondary character we can brush over like it's nothing

gojo satoru is the people princess and if you can handle creating such a powerful character (in terms of popularity and impact in the history you made) don't create it because if you don't wrap very well how things are going to unfold you lose the magnificence of what you created so far

that's the thing about tragedies man, they have to be very well written and thought through otherwise it just seems you like to shock the audience with cheap tactics

[stuck-in-the-ghost-zone]

walks into ur inbox and sets up a big conspiracy board. hi mac :3 do u wanna hear about the hs epilogues and hs2??? well i'm gonna learn u a thing about homed stuck post canon!!!! here we fucking go

ok so idk how much of the epilogues u have read, but basically to sum it up: it was made as a way to make the fans of canon hs angry. like that's kinda the whole point. and it worked because honestly!! they are quite terrible!!! and i do like them a lot but there are a lot of things that were done in bad faith with very little care to original canon, such as: raging misogyny in the form of making jane a hashtag girlboss who sexually abused jake, jade who has no concept of sexual boundaries and was literally framed to be the girl who got in between the gay couple, and like. a lot more. so it's. very far from perfect. honestly a lot of the character writing isn't even that good

but something to keep in mind is that while yes, part of the reason a lot of it is written that way is because hussie just wanted to piss people off, there is kind of a canon reason for it??? dirk went kind of off the rails and absorbed the knowledge of all of his splinters and alternate timeline selves (which for a person who hates himself that much!!! not great!!! would drive a guy a little nuts!!!) and he got a little. bro strider-ish. very manipulative and Not Nice. and he also grabbed control over the entire narrative in the meat timeline so!!! he was just messing with people and trying to convince himself he didn't feel bad about it. sad!

and the candy timeline is controlled by alt!calliope who wanted to make the entire timeline nice and perfect and domestic, a war broke out between trolls and humans, shit hit the fan pretty bad, but the narrative only focuses on the romantic and family drama which says sooooooo much about how alt!callie views the world and these characters. she grew up obsessing over them and now can't process that these are real people who are friends with the alpha timeline version of herself and it drives me bonkers and fucking yonkers GIRL YOU ARE MESSING WITH PEOPLE YOU ARE NO DIFFERENT THAN YOUR BROTHER!!!! since ultimate!dirk absorbed the knowledge and memories of lord english through his absorption of arquiussprite he is basically lord fucking english so him and alt!calliope arguing over the timelines is literally just. two siblings who never grew up pulling their toys/friends back and forth and being upset because they can't get their own way IT'S INSANE

also the prose slaps sometimes. meat page 39 is an especially good example, like the way it capture's ult!dirk's character voice is. AAAAAAUGHJGHGH. god. the feelings of that part. the way he's clearly trying so hard not to care..... but he DOES. and you can TELL. honestly it really captures the tragedy of dirkjake so well. also candy page 14 is just. woagh. idk if you read that part but dirk dies in candy and it's just.... holyyyyy shit dude. it's a bit gorey and it is a suicide so maybe not the best part to read if you're in a bad state of mind but GOD. it just. there's something about it that somehow manages to capture dirk so well in a way. like of course his death would be self inflicted while feeling like he's doing something "right." jesus christ. i can give u links to my favourite pages if u wanna read any of em

ummm ANYWAY. hs2 is a continuation of BOTH timelines. john died in the meat timeline (sad) and got incredibly depressed in the candy timeline (also sad) but also he had a son with roxy in candy!!! his name is harry anderson and lemme tell u i love all of the kids in candy. there's harry, there's vrissy (an ecto clone of vriska adopted by rose and kanaya), tavros crocker-english (jane and jake's kid, the most tragic little guy ever tbh) and um. yiffy. yiffany longstocking lalonde-harley who was born when jade wanted a kid. i'm not gonna get into the whole ordeal of yiffy rn it was so balls to the wall insane if i explained everything i would be here all day. but also VRISKA IS THERE 🎉🎉🎉 and she is the highlight of the candy timeline lemme tell u. she's gonna end the troll/human war maybe. or maybe she'll just fuck around. who knows!!! it's vriska!!! i love her silly unpredictable swag :3

the meat timeline is where i go especially crazy because there is soooo much to analyze here in terms of prose and imagery and just. stuff in general. basically dirk and rose blasted off into space to go create a new intelligent species and introduce them to sburb and make their universe "relevant" again because something just feels Off about their current story, and they can't quite tell what it is so they're fixing it any way they can think of. also terezi tagged along because she was there when john died and she still hasn't found vriska and so she is also depressed so hey why not tag along on this death trip to the stars!!! also a bunch of others are trying to chase them down in their own spaceship, including: dave and karkat, jade, callie, and roxy (who is transmasc in the meat timeline!!!) also davekat is canon in the meat timeline and they have some lovely existential discussions about dave's immortality and karkat's mortality

anyway thats all i got for now. i feel insane about these guys and i'm hoping the new writers for hs2 can maybe improve the story a bit AND THEY ALREADY KIND OF HAVE!!! they brought sollux back, they made jake less of a punching bag and more of a character, they have vriska shenanigans, and jane is less of an Evil Girlboss and actually more of a homestuck villain if that makes sense!! AND THE ART STYLE IS BETTER TOO the hs2 style kind of devolved a bit and looked a bit terrible after a while (they might have just had new artists on at the time) but now they've got different artists!! and the guy heading it now worked on some of the original homestuck stuff!! so they're trying to slowly fix some of hussie's bad writing choices and expanding on the cool stuff that was already there!! i love hs2 it is my deeply flawed very fucked up baby :3 sorry this was so long. the demons got me u understand <3

I UNDERSTAND I UNDERSTAND. OMG THANK YOU. i actually did start reading candy/meat when they first came out (<< 17 yr old who was so so so excited for new homestuck content) and ended up. giving up on them REALLY quick. i actually got to the part where dirk died in candy and that was what made me put them down entirely bc i was SO upset . also like u said yes the way jade was characterized was so so so uncomfy for me. so those r like the two main factors that made me totally give up on meat and candy. and i kind of openly was super super mad about the epilogues for a while after that and then i realized. oh no. im a fool. im exactly the kind of person they were written to make angry HHFDBSJS. so i backed down and learned to appreciate them for what they were from a distance <3

i appreciate u SO MUCH for the deep dive bc holy shit. every once in a while i have the internal struggle of "god i miss homestuck. maybe i should go back and read the epilogues" and then i Dont hFBFSJDK . i actually do not know SHIT about hs2 in general !! i know there is. ult dirk who looks like an anime villain and i think thats great for him. aaaaand. the davekat laundry room scene which i have only seen panels for and not dialogue and i love them so much forever. and thats about the extent of my knowledge.

[moonmeg]

//The Owl House - Hollow Mind Spoilers!!

Sweet cheese and crackers I knew Hollow Mind would be wild (haha funny) but I seriously am gonna need a minute-

Hunter is a grimwalker, and the chilling thing about that is that he's one of multiple previous tries that ALWAYS WERE INTENDED TO LOOK LIKE OTHER WITTEBANE BRO since Belos/Philip says Hunter is the one to look most like him. And all those previous Grimwalkers and Golden Guards lost their life, most likely when they no longer were on Belos' side. He says it himself. As long as Hunter stays on the right path, meaning Belos' path, he will live. That makes Hunter's hyperventilating, fear and panicked run away from the Owl House after Luz and him end up there just SO MUCH MORE terrifying. Because Belos knows. Hunter is no longer the obedient little puppet. Not after this episode.

I FEEL SO BAD FOR THIS BOY PLEASE SOMEONE KEEP HIM SAFE

Also,,, WHAT IN THE WORLD HAPPENED BETWEEN THE BROTHERS?? Philip doesn't even see him as his brother anymore. Just an old friend. All memories with his brother in them are ripped and torn right over his brother's face. The Grimwalkers were tries to replicate his brother's appearance and everytime they no longer are on Belos' side he destroys them again.

Look obviously there was some big drama and betrayal of some sort. In the childhood memories they seem to get along from what can be seen (also yes!! Philip really is the younger brother! I always had that feeling!) but if everything was great til the end and Wittebane bro died because of wild magic like Philip claims, he wouldn't be so distant and cold about and to his own brother. You could say the rips are because of the loss. And while every person deals with grief differently I doubt many RIP AND TEAR APART OR OTHERWISE TRY TO ERASE THE PERSON FROM THEIR MEMORIES. That's a tactic to let someone go after they hurt you (break up, betrayal etc.) and you don't want to see their face anymore, be part of your life anymore.

So I guess I'll just stick to my theory that the other Wittebane bro was the first ever to go against his little brother's plans and it ended in some horrible fight for life and death and we all know the winner of that one. I don't think Philip cold-heartedly murdered his own brother but that it was more sort of an accident with wild magic that they used. It wouldn't make sense why else he'd try to get him back trough obedient Grimwalkers that are the spitting image of him and have them pay with their lives when they betray him. He can't let him go, but he's sour over the first ever betrayal and can't have "his brother" going against him again. The story of the Wittebane brothers must be such a tragedy, goodness. But that's just my thoughts.

ALSO LUZ NOW FINALLY KNOWS HE'S PHILIP AAAA

And of course, Raine, Darius and Eberwolf my beloved. You're doing great ily

TLTR: MAN WHAT AN EPISODE I'M????? SAT THERE ON TGW EDGE OF MY SEAT THE WHOLE TIME BRO

[allerod]

30 aka my own question, what's the absolute fucking worst "historical" movie series book whatever you've ever evered?

right, so they're not officially a couple, but i read them one after the other in a span of like three days, and they're both the same genre of alternative history so here are the worst two historical books i ever had the (dis)pleasure of reading:

the premise of the first one was simply "what if piłsudski haven't had cancer". and boy is the answer to that a doozy, according to the author! because, you see, if piłsudski had lived longer, he and hitler would meet up. and hitler would be so impressed by his mustache and strong belief in military supported dictatorships, he would fall in love instantly. and attacking your crush country is not a good flirting technique, so instead germany and poland would become allies in wwii. piłsudski would die nevertheless, and at this point hitler would start dating a polish girlie who reminded him of his, now dead, One True Love (piłsudski). they would be going on creepy dates and had creepy sex and all that, all while the war is going Great! woo! with the combined power of german-polish scientists, now not in camps, they could really invent a fully functional wunderwaffe, and a showing of it's power is scheduled. but sike! the girlie is working with the polish gov! using her position, she schemes with polish scientists! they change the weapon coordinates! the whole upper nazi management goes boom! poland takes control of german army and singlehandedly wins world war ii! hurray we're winner! but wait! the girlie was pregnant and now she's sad and she names her son adolf and writes down her memories of all the creepy dates she went on with her, now dead, One True Love (hitler). which her son finds after her death and sends to the publisher and that's this book apparently.

what a drag. the middle part was truly uncomfy. like bro why am i reading about hitler having sex. repeatedly. i can't recall the title of this, which is truly a tragedy, but whatever, it's over, let's read something else. oh what's this? a book named "the embaSSy"? well might as well, maybe this one will be better.

wait why is this set in modern day warsaw? ohh i see, this building we are moving into used to be a german embassy, okay. uh oh besties, these are the doors to a neighboring flat, ours is a floor above. huh, why is this flat full of nazi cosplayers. well, whatever, i need to pee i'm just gonna go to the toil- WHY IS HITLER SITTING ON THIS TOILET SINGING A SILLY SONG AND DOING FINGER GUNS. well whatever, we're returning to our own flat and we are taking hitler with us. who, upon getting to know him better, turns out to be a really swell guy. also turns out he knows nothing about any planned attack, he just wants to chill really, what do you mean world war. ooh could it be that this EVIL CLONE of him plans to take over ?! we gotta stop him, so back to the other flat we go! but first lets leave hitler here and give him a shave. okay now we can go. time for some wacky shenanigans! we get rid of the EVIL CLONE, but uh oh, there's a planning bombing of warsaw incoming in retaliation of killing hitler. and we shaved our bestie the real hitler, so no one will recognize him ; ; fortunately everyone knows his voice, so we just have to get him on a really high roof and give him a radio and he can communicate with the pilots to turn back and cancel the bombing. as soon as we find him in modern day warsaw because it seems he broke out of his enclosure..... time running out but we do it, the planes turn at the last moment, gg ez, we say a tearful goodbye to our new best friend and return home. if you disregard the noisy neighbors, this is quite a nice flat, right? and the view is beautiful, straight onto the palace of culture and science! wait where has the palace gone?

was:

is:

i cannot overstate how incredibly cringe that book was. i have never in my life read anything more cringworthy and i am not exaggerating. it's apparently based on a comedy movie by the same title, and every day i live in fear that i'll be forced to watch it and die instantly from the amount of terrible jokes presented to me.

but reading these two back to back was truly an Experience. i like to think they're taking part in the same universe, and stalin's penis was amputated in that timeline because we actually won wwii. thank you girlie for your service 🙏

[wishingstarinajar]

Oooh thanks for the toyhouse link, my brain is buzzing! what's the story between Reverse and Outer!Wine? How does the wine hop universes? Why did his brother die instead of getting his body taken over by ghost? How is ghost handling his bros... Activities?

[Only answer if you wanna, i won't feel upset if you don't have the energy]

All good!

I don't know all the details about Outer!Wine because he isn't mine but I'll do my best to answer any questions related to him. Quick summary: Outer!Wine aka Zinfandel is @stankychee's character and inspired by Fellswap Gold and Outertale, along with some Warhammer 40K aesthetics. His AU takes place on a space station instead of the moon and has a strong military vibe.

Now, Zin had a little brother, an Outer!Fellswap version of Coffee called Corretto, and Reverse stumbled across this poor soul and kidnapped him, believing him to be Papyrus-coded. Zinfandel witnessed the kidnapping but was unable to stop Reverse from escaping the AU with Corretto. Unfortunately for Reverse (and the poor kid!), Corretto was a Swap version and therefore Sans-coded. He suffered a horrible death as his SOUL wasn't compatible with the broken SOUL of Reverse's brother, Ghost... A damn tragedy and a hard-learned lesson for Reverse about Swap AUs; Sans and Papyrus-coded souls don't mix well, if at all. (PS: this is headcanon lore! It's fine if you believe differently.) Zinfandel has been tracking Reverse down ever since, chasing him down through the multiverse.

How he does it? Zinfandel has this very cool sword that works almost the same as Rewind/Reverse's ShortCUT scissors. It allows him to create (temporary) exits and entry points between AUs. He follows traces of tampered code within AUs to try and follow Reverse (every portal Rewind/Reverse create leaves behind such traces).

The whole 'fix Ghost's broken SOUL with another Papyrus-coded SOUL and body' is more of a theory Rewind/Reverse have than fact. They have no idea if it actually works. And Ghost, well... He doesn't approve of any of it. He's quite upset with Reverse but because he isn't detectable and can't interact with anything, he can't tell his brother to stop or that he's harming his SOUL more with the failed attempts at fixing it. He holds out hope that Reverse will see the error of his ways but he's distraught and heartbroken.

[comingupforblair]

Franchises that are either panned or hit or miss like PotC are almost never heavily criticized and the fandoms are rarely berated for liking them. I'm not quite sure why the DCEU fandom has been the butt of all the rude jokes. I can't help but think most of the bitterness comes from MCU stans who think the success of anything DC is bad news for Marvel, but I could be wrong. Any ideas yourself?

I really don’t know. I wish I could say. I think a big part of it has to do with the frankly selfish attitude of Marvel fans who have acted offended at DC’s mere existence over the last four years and frequently wanted Them to just give up and not make films anymore, even as They claim that the films could never hope to reach the same level as Theirs. 

Zack Snyder’s involvement also has a lot to do with it as I can’t think of another director who has ever invoked such vitriolic hatred. Not even scumbags like Woody Allen or David O Russell get anywhere near as much shit. He’s an easy target and I remain convinced that people wouldn’t be anywhere near as harsh on these films if any other creator was behind Them. If everything was exactly the same but done by George Miller, for example, people would be a lot more receptive or just indifferent. I can’t imagine people going out of Their way to harass him after a personal tragedy or anything like that.

There’s also the fact that the DCEU has happened in the shadow of the MCU which has been held up as some great success story and whose way of doing so has become a blueprint to surefire success, a plan a refusal to follow to the letter is seen as the height of foolishness. Such a narrative completely ignores the context in which DCEU films exist (They needed solo films for Thor and Captain America because most people in the general public didn’t know the first fucking thing about Them, about which the same cannot be said of Batman or The Flash, and the same people saying this have shown a tendency to immediately reverse Their position and cry ‘’plagiarism’’ the second any similarities are noticed). 

There is also the fact that the DCEU has had, since the very beginning, a very different goal from Marvel and pursued it and people seem unable to fathom that a company wouldn’t want to follow the same path that has worked out so well for another. There’s also the fact the MCU films have made fun and enjoyment not only Their dominant goal but increasingly Their only one, even at the cost of potentially powerful drama. The MCU films made a huge point of lampshading the inherent silliness of Their films at every turn while the DCEU has played it all completely seriously and people have gotten used to knowingly silly films.

This point has been disputed by some using Logan as an example of the fact that darker superhero films and ones not from the MCU can do well too but eI see the positive reception of it as another example of a degree of bias against Zack Snyder, especially as the elements that people cited as more mature (The increased swearing and frankly jaw-dropping levels of violence) are exactly the frankly immature examples of maturity that people accuse his films of being rife with, which is not to say that Logan didn’t deserve it’s success or acclaim.

The DCEU has also been something of a victim of past successes. The Nolan films are an obvious source but the animated films and shows also count and the bias against Snyder can be seen there too. People will absolutely crucify him for elements that were just as, if not more, present in those adaptations (The Jesus symbolism being one of the more prominent examples as it was much more overt in Richard Donner’s film). 

The absolute worst example of this has to be the handling of Superman which is almost invariably compared to the Christopher Reeve version, with the latter held up as how the character not only should but MUST be portrayed and Snyder’s version having his flaws exaggerated to a staggering degree to make the comparison more loaded against him. Such a statement of course ignores the fact that Superman has changed massively since 1978, with the portrayal of him there already being a bit outdated by that time and something of a relic from the silver age. 

Superman is unique among fictional characters in that there has only been one major portrayal of him that people can flock to and venerate and hold up as an example of the character. Every other major character (James Bond, Batman, Sherlock Holmes) has been allowed to evolve with the times but Superman has stayed frozen in 1978 and that’s exactly where purists want him to stay and it’s easier to believe that Zack Snyder just doesn’t understand Superman or actively hates him than it is to concede that maybe They need to accept another version, one that will appeal to people who are unused to seeing a version of the character that They can relate to. Add in Chris Reeve’s real-life tragedy, activism, premature death and deserved idolization and it’s no surprise at all that people have such a hard time letting go.

This is another area in which Marvel has had a distinct advantage as They have worked predominantly with characters that most of the general public don’t know and that has given Them license to change things as They wish, both major and minor. People don’t know how much Thor has been depowered or that Iron Man isn’t anywhere near as sarcastic in the comics. They don’t know how different Black Widow’s back story is or of the huge changes made to characters and, as such, They don’t get angry about Them. 

A perfect example of this would be the way Marvel wrote Wilson Fisk/Kingpin in Daredevil as being inarticulate, painfully shy and heavily implied to be on the Autism spectrum, all of which radically contrasts his portrayal in the comics. Warner Bros do something similar with Lex Luthor (Making the character’s personality different in some minor ways while still keeping the core and essence of Them completely intact, in this case emphasizing his immaturity and making Lex more over the top and heavily implied to suffer from some kind of untreated disorder in addition to at least some of his behavior being attributed to his horribly abusive childhood) and people raise holy hell and accuse it of having nothing in common with the original, which is usually just the version They have in Their heads from other portrayals.

There are more factors and I’m open to hearing theories from others as to why the DCEU has received such a disproportionately harsh and critical reception compared to other franchises. I know there are people reading this who are probably sneering and saying something along the lines of ‘’Maybe it’s because the films are just BAD. Did you ever think of that?” and I’m sure I’ll hear from Them soon enough and I won’t pretend that there aren’t legitimate criticisms of these films, both specific and to the universe as a whole, nor will I tell anyone They’re wrong if They politely and respectfully decide that it just isn’t Their thing.

But I think most reasonable people, even people who are lukewarm about these films or outright don’t like Them, can concede that They certainly aren’t deserving of such an extraordinarily nasty reception as They have been given.